posted 07-14-2003 06:04 PM            

Also we are planning to build a second building on our forest property to handle overflow: library, lab, storage, workshop, guest quarters, etc. Our present house is a 1700 sq ft log house constructed 30 years ago using large white spruce from a floodplain nearby. It is great (I will try to post photos on dwellers homes soon), but too much on the dark and cozy side for my taste now.

I want the new building to be modern and light. But it must be energy efficient for this location near the arctic circle. Most of what I have seen online does not seem suitable for here.

A few weeks ago we bought a used 8 X 40 Connex container for some of our overflow, and since then I have been scouring the web for container building information (much of which I found at dwell ubb. We paid about $2500. including delivery.

posted 07-15-2003 10:19 AM               

Eventually, I plan to have a range of designs, in various sizes, for every climate and every type of terrain. All modernist, of course.

Gary

posted 07-15-2003 02:54 PM               

I am doing some manifesto writing on this topic, but did not get as far as I wanted to today. I'll post a draft tomorrow, hopefuly by noon Pacific. Sorry for the delay.

posted 07-16-2003 10:59 AM               

Below is a draft mission statement/manifesto for what I'm calling Blah.com (for lack of a better name). We can fill that in later, after some feedback can help us see what salient values shoudl be included in a name.

I also started writing for the consumer, but then switched audience midway to the producer, as I think they need to be organized a bit more first, before reaching out to consumers with this idea. Therefore the value proposition for both should be somewhat evident, but it really is weighted to the needs of the producers. (I think we'd have to redo the "values" section completely for consumers, though I do think consumers will find real value in the values.)

And I wrote this to be an invitation, to use this to get people to join the conversation. (I think of these pieces as handbills, must be timely, compelling, easy to agree with.) Therefore the Open House concept. I ran out of steam on a closer, so help is needed there carrying through the metaphor.

Anyway, this is my first draft. I think it fairly encompases and summarizes the discussion so far, without getting too tactical.

Have at it. Other than being the author, I have no ownership...

Marshall

--

You’re invited to an Open House for Affordable Modernism

“I’m looking for housing that is affordable, and modern. I know there must be innovative, well-designed prefab housing out there. I just can’t seem to find it!”
Tracey R., from the Dwell discussion board

Our love for modernist housing is being rekindled as many more people deliberately depart from traditional housing. People want homes that are distinguished by their openness and livability through the use of innovative design, materials and construction methods. Dwell, the magazine of affordable modernism, captures the lifestyle best: being “at home in the modern world.”

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! New products are being brought to the public every day by small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market. But solutions that match consumer needs often remain elusive. There is no one best place online to find them all: affordable modernist housing designers or developments, fixtures or furnishings.

Blah.com is a service that helps connect the public interested in affordable modernist housing to a range of independent providers, including architects, manufacturers, builders, and realtors, among others. Blah.com envisions a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable and accessible to a majority of home buyers.

To realize our mission and vision, Blah.com will initially focus on three broad strategies:

• conduct outreach to and education for consumers to introduce them to the options for affordable modernist housing, thereby demonstrating to potential producers the size of the market for affordable modernism;

• link constituencies, connecting home buyers to modernist architects, modernist prefab manufacturers to building contractors, modernist home developers to realtors, etc., all in geographically-defined markets; and

• develop a cooperative marketing infrastructure, including conducting market research, for producers of affordable modernist housing.

All of these strategies will reinforce each other, thus continually expanding the market for both consumers and producers. In the implementation of each of these strategies, Blah.com will embody the values that distinguish successful cooperative networks in emerging markets:

• transparency, meaning that anyone can understand its evolution;

• openness, meaning that anyone can contribute to its evolution;

• fairness, meaning that anyone can benefit, in relation to what they contribute;

• interoperability, meaning that processes and systems (however they are defined, to serve the market) can be used with and learn from each other as they evolve; and

• civility, meaning that anyone knows how to legally use ideas and relationships created and shared during the building of Blah.com.

Blah.com is a community of consumers and producers of affordable modernist housing dedicated to the mission, vision, strategies and values. Membership is free and open to anyone that agrees with our approach and is interested in accessing the market for affordable modernist housing.

You are invited to join Blah.com by participating in our charter discussions on the Dwell discussion board (http://interverse.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000173.html). Be sure to invite your friends and colleagues. Feel free post this invitation in any appropriate forum.

For the time being, Blah.com is an informal community organized in the Dwell forum. In the near future, Blah.com will begin work on it’s primary strategies, including establishing an organizational identity, structure and website.

Come to our Open House now to make our new space feel like your own home.

posted 07-16-2003 06:27 PM               

Other than that, I think it needs to include more specifics concerning what benefits the consumer may realize. Mentioning such things as how blah.net (or ModNet) can help consumers find architects/designers, builders, etc. is important, I believe. We don't want the consumer getting the impression that this is more for producers than consumers. If that happens, we risk losing the very people we need to make the marketplace function.

posted 07-16-2003 06:43 PM               

Some feedback: Towards the end where you describe transparency, openness, fairness, interoperability and civility. Perhaps this could be rolled into a paragraph rather than bullet points, and the language more conversational rather than conceptual. Is this where you felt you ran out of steam?

I really like the Open House anology. It makes me think of open mindedness as well as sounds welcoming.

I think you did a good job of describing the organization starting now on the Dwell messageboards. I think it sets the stage for getting people involved now even while a web site comes together.

posted 07-17-2003 06:32 AM               

As for process, I'd suggest that we finish up this discussion this week, having as many readers of this thread agree to this statement as we can. Then I actually think it would be good to have people sign on, include the list at the end of the statement, and then distribute it to get more people into the conversation. This could happen next week. (It would be good to have Dwell is a signator.)

Otherwise, it may be about time to start a discussion on a specification for the website. (this can happen before a name is decided.) Actually, I think a lot of that discussion has been conducted, and just needs to be summarized. I may be able to work on that a bit today.

posted 07-17-2003 07:42 AM               

Marshall

--

You’re invited to an Open House for Affordable Modernism

“I’m looking for housing that is affordable, and modern. I know there must be innovative, well-designed prefab housing out there. I just can’t seem to find it!”
Tracey R., from the Dwell discussion board

Our love for modernist housing is being rekindled as many more people deliberately depart from traditional housing. People want homes that are distinguished by their openness and livability through the use of innovative design, materials and construction methods. Dwell, the magazine of affordable modernism, captures the lifestyle best: being “at home in the modern world.”

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! New products are being brought to the public every day by small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market. But solutions that match consumer needs often remain elusive. There is no one best place online to find them all: affordable modernist housing designers or developments, fixtures or furnishings.

Blah.com is a service that helps connect the public interested in affordable modernist housing to a range of independent providers, including architects, manufacturers, builders, and realtors, among others. Blah.com envisions a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable to a majority of home buyers, and it is easy to find in their community.

To realize our mission and vision, Blah.com will initially focus on three broad strategies:
• conduct outreach to and education for consumers to introduce them to the options for affordable modernist housing, thereby demonstrating to potential producers the size of the market for affordable modernism;
• develop a cooperative marketing infrastructure, including conducting market research, for producers of affordable modernist housing; and
• link Blah.com members to each other, connecting home buyers to modernist architects, modernist prefab manufacturers to building contractors, modernist home developers to realtors, etc., all in geographically-defined markets.

All of these strategies will reinforce each other, thus continually expanding the market for both consumers and producers. In the implementation of each of these strategies, Blah.com will embody the values that distinguish successful communities of interest in emerging markets: transparency, openness, fairness, cooperation and civility.

The principle benefit for both consumers and producers alike is that they will be able to find each other through Blah.com. Initially, a couple interested in building a modernist house will be able to more easily find an architect or stock plan to suit their needs. As the Blah.com community grows and becomes more diverse, consumers will similar interests in a geographic market will be able to coalesce demand for a modernist housing development, while architects or manufacturers will be able to work with local developers to meet localized demand.

Blah.com is a community of consumers and producers of affordable modernist housing dedicated to this mission and vision, as well as strategies and values. Membership is free and open to anyone that agrees with our approach and is interested in accessing the market for affordable modernist housing.

You are invited to join Blah.com by participating in our charter discussions on the Dwell discussion board (http://interverse.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000173.html). Be sure to invite your friends and colleagues. Feel free post this invitation in any appropriate forum.

For the time being, Blah.com is an informal community organized in the Dwell forum. In the near future, Blah.com will begin work on it’s primary strategies, including establishing an organizational identity, structure and website.

Come to our Open House now to make our new community be a place you’d want to live.

posted 07-17-2003 07:43 AM               

I like starting with a quote. However, I am afraid that because this quote is about pre-fab housing, people will immediately deduce that blah.com is focused on mondern pre-fab housing instead of modern housing in general.

The next paragraph is great. But do we want to mention Dwell in specific? I would love for this organization to get some play in Met Home or Metropolis and I don;t want them to be turned off by our mention of Dwell. On the other hand, if Dwell wants to get involved in our success, even in a small way, then I think mentioning them is great. After all, they are the best media outlet available for the type of development we are advocating.

quote:

---

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! New products are being brought to the public every day by small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market. But solutions that match consumer needs often remain elusive. There is no one best place online to find them all: affordable modernist housing designers or developments, fixtures or furnishings.

---

Yes, one problem is linking interested consumers with developers/architects. However, as I see it, the bigger problem is convicing developers interested in attempting a modern housing development that there is growing consumer demand and they can make money buildig modern. Also, I think being a yellow pages of sources for modern building supplies, fixtures and furniture should be important, but secondary.

I think this works just as well (I also simplified the following paragraph a bit):

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! New products are being brought to the public every day by small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market. Still, the market remains small despite growing consumer interest.

Blah.com is a service that helps connect consumers interested in affordable modernist housing to those involved in the housing industry including architects, developers, builders, and realtors, among others. Blah.com envisions a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable and accessible to a majority of home buyers.

(Does the mission differ from the vision?)
To realize this vision, Blah.com will initially focus on three broad strategies:

• conduct outreach to and education for consumers to introduce them to the options for affordable modernist housing, thereby demonstrating to potential producers the size of the market for affordable modernism;

(we need to discuss this outreach. Does this just mean posting flyers in furniture stores? Dwell is probably the single best source of education. Are we trying to educate the unwashed masses or just trying to allow those already interested to stand up and be counted?)

• link constituencies, connecting home buyers to modernist architects, modernist prefab manufacturers to building contractors, modernist home developers to realtors, etc., all in geographically-defined markets; and

(Does this mean: "Facilitate the interaction between prospective home buyers and and producers, including developers, architects, developers and realators, within geographically defined markets.")

• develop a cooperative marketing infrastructure, including conducting market research, for producers of affordable modernist housing.

(here I am afraid that "marketing" and "market research" will scare off consumers. How about something like:

"Collect information on what consumers are looking for in housing (size, price, etc.) to help inform producers so that they can meet the markets demand."

quote:

---

All of these strategies will reinforce each other, thus continually expanding the market for both consumers and producers. In the implementation of each of these strategies,

---

I like the previous paragraph. I think the work "both" is unneccesary since a market is the interaction between consumers and producers.

{more later, need to deal with crying baby}

Blah.com will embody the values that distinguish successful cooperative networks in emerging markets:

• transparency, meaning that anyone can understand its evolution;

• openness, meaning that anyone can contribute to its evolution;

• fairness, meaning that anyone can benefit, in relation to what they contribute;

• interoperability, meaning that processes and systems (however they are defined, to serve the market) can be used with and learn from each other as they evolve; and

• civility, meaning that anyone knows how to legally use ideas and relationships created and shared during the building of Blah.com.

Blah.com is a community of consumers and producers of affordable modernist housing dedicated to the mission, vision, strategies and values. Membership is free and open to anyone that agrees with our approach and is interested in accessing the market for affordable modernist housing.

You are invited to join Blah.com by participating in our charter discussions on the Dwell discussion board (http://interverse.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000173.html). Be sure to invite your friends and colleagues. Feel free post this invitation in any appropriate forum.

For the time being, Blah.com is an informal community organized in the Dwell forum. In the near future, Blah.com will begin work on it’s primary strategies, including establishing an organizational identity, structure and website.

Come to our Open House now to make our new space feel like your own home.

posted 07-17-2003 08:05 AM               

When the baby will allow, perhaps you could comment on the second draft, posted just before your reply. Thanks for your suggestions. I just don't want to mis-interpret them.

posted 07-17-2003 10:22 AM               

The term "market rate" is too much of a mouthful too. I wonder how it sounds if we just leave it out? I mean to most people the problem is not that they can't afford it - the problem is that there is none to buy. We don't have to pitch that we are going to make modernism affordable - we have to pitch that we are going to make it available.

In general I think affordable should be descriptive and not become a slogan - I don't want to wipe it out of the text but put it where it adds to understanding. I am going to put my comments in bold

I think affordable needs to remain in the opening quote: I’m looking for housing that is affordable, and modern.

And remain in the opening of Para3:Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! But dropped here in P3: There is no one best place online to find them all: affordable modernist housing designers or developments, fixtures or furnishings.

In P4 drop it here: Blah.com is a service that helps connect the public interested in affordable modernist housing to a range of independent providers, including architects, manufacturers, builders, and realtors, among others. But keep it here: Blah.com envisions a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable to a majority of home buyers, and it is easy to find in their community.

In P5 with 3 bullets I think all affordables should be dropped:To realize our mission and vision, Blah.com will initially focus on three broad strategies:
• conduct outreach to and education for consumers to introduce them to the options for affordable modernist housing, thereby demonstrating to potential producers the size of the market for affordable modernism;
• develop a cooperative marketing infrastructure, including conducting market research, for producers of affordable modernist housing; and
• link Blah.com members to each other, connecting home buyers to modernist architects, modernist prefab manufacturers to building contractors, modernist home developers to realtors, etc., all in geographically-defined markets.

P8 drop it:Blah.com is a community of consumers and producers of affordable modernist housing dedicated to this mission and vision, as well as strategies and values. Membership is free and open to anyone that agrees with our approach and is interested in accessing the market for affordable modernist housing.

posted 07-17-2003 10:28 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rous:
The next paragraph is great. But do we want to mention Dwell in specific? I would love for this organization to get some play in Met Home or Metropolis and I don;t want them to be turned off by our mention of Dwell. On the other hand, if Dwell wants to get involved in our success, even in a small way, then I think mentioning them is great. After all, they are the best media outlet available for the type of development we are advocating.

---

I agree that the mention of Dwell may be better saved for later, when we have a firm commitment from Dwell. I also agree that it could put off Dwell's competitors if they see this as a Dwell-endorsed project. We need to be careful how we handle this.

quote:

---

Yes, one problem is linking interested consumers with developers/architects. However, as I see it, the bigger problem is convicing developers interested in attempting a modern housing development that there is growing consumer demand and they can make money buildig modern. Also, I think being a yellow pages of sources for modern building supplies, fixtures and furniture should be important, but secondary.

---

Keep in mind, Rous, that the mission is to link together the elements of the market for modernist housing. In other words, we want participation by developers and builders who are already experienced with this market. We are not necessarily attempting to convert or recruit from the ranks of developers and builders who have never done any modernist houses, and who may be skeptical about doing so. Our goal is not to overcome the resistance of those who are not interested, but to bring together those who are already interested. Those who are not interested are not a part of the market we seek to facilitate.

posted 07-17-2003 11:33 AM               

Although I really applaud your point NOT to exclude the idea of affordability, I hope this paragraph doesn't become the general attitude. I think availability and affordability are equally a problem. I think that not boldly addressing the issue of affordability will make this venture have little statement, as this is the area modernism has always failed. If we continue to tiptoe around it modern homes will not become the rule.

I know making the information available will increase the number of modern homes built, but the functional design question of affordability will remain unanswered. It will make modernism more popular, but no more accessible.

I think the only way to truly get more built in mass quantities, is to make it where more people can build them.....and afford them.

I think affordability needs to remain in the mission statement. If we can confidently say 'yes, you can afford a well designed modern home,' then I believe people will confidently build them.

posted 07-17-2003 12:18 PM               

The affordability issue is like a chicken and egg - to not recongnize that is not seeing the whole picture. Developers want to play to the widest audience which excludes modernism, which leaves it to the affluent to build at their leisure. Modernism is not unpopular because its expensive, its expensive because its unpopular.

Making the focus "affordability" will alienate some people, making the focus "availability" includes concerns about cost and does not have any stigma.

As for Gary's comments, I think linking the market goes hand in hand with overcoming resistance. But the latter will grow out of the former - ultimately it will benefit the modern consumer to overcome the resistance of developers and other providers/producers to broaden their choice.

posted 07-17-2003 12:31 PM               

"One explination for the current conservatism in mass-market residential design is simple: money. Unconventional designs tend to cost more....Additionally, innovative houses typically are appraised for less, in part due to the lack of comparible properties on which valuations are made." (Record, 07/03, pp.78).

posted 07-17-2003 12:53 PM               

quote:

---

“I’m looking for housing that is affordable, and modern. I know there must be innovative, well-designed prefab housing out there. I just can’t seem to find it!”
Tracey R., from the Dwell discussion board

---

quote:

---

Our love for modernist housing is being rekindled as many more people deliberately depart from traditional housing. People want homes that are distinguished by their openness and livability through the use of innovative design, materials and construction methods. Dwell, the magazine of affordable modernism, captures the lifestyle best: being “at home in the modern world.”

---

Until Dwell is on board, let’s leave them out.

quote:

---

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! New products are being brought to the public every day by small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market. But solutions that match consumer needs often remain elusive. There is no one best place online to find them all: affordable modernist housing designers or developments, fixtures or furnishings.

Blah.com is a service that helps connect the public interested in affordable modernist housing to a range of independent providers, including architects, manufacturers, builders, and realtors, among others. Blah.com envisions a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable to a majority of home buyers, and it is easy to find in their community.

---

“elusive” here means that there is an attempt by "solutions" to avoid detection. I am not sure that is what you mean.

What is the alternative to an “independent” provider? And to we want to exclude non-independent providers?

Why are “manufacturers” considered providers but not developers? And what are they manufacturing?

It’s a personal thing, “envisions” seems too… new corporate doublespeak or something.

Also, this early on I think we need to focus on housing and leave other products for later. I would edit these paragraphs like this:

Affordable modernism is no longer an oxymoron! Small, entrepreneurial companies eager to address this emerging market are beginning to produce modern housing in different areas around the U.S. However, the market remains small and it can be difficult for consumers to find housing that matches their demands. Similarly, as the market for modern housing is rather small it can be hard for developers and others in the housing industry to know what consumers in this market are looking for. To compound the problem, building costs can be driven upwards when builders are unfamiliar with building materials specified for a modern home.

Blah.com is a service that helps connect the public interested in affordable modernist housing to those in the housing industry supportive of modern housing, including architects, developers, builders, and realtors, among others. Blah.com looks forward to a future in which modernist housing is widely available because it is affordable to a majority of home buyers, and it is easy to find in their community.

quote:

---

To realize our mission and vision, Blah.com will initially focus on three broad strategies:
• conduct outreach to and education for consumers to introduce them to the options for affordable modernist housing, thereby demonstrating to potential producers the size of the market for affordable modernism;

---

We need to discuss this outreach. Does this just mean posting flyers in furniture stores? Dwell is probably the single best source of education. Are we trying to educate the unwashed masses or just trying to allow those already interested to stand up and be counted?

quote:

---

• develop a cooperative marketing infrastructure, including conducting market research, for producers of affordable modernist housing; and

---

I am afraid that "marketing" and "market research" will scare off consumers. How about something like:

Collect information on what consumers are looking for in housing (size, price, etc.) to help inform producers so that they can meet the markets demand.

O.k. That isn’t any good either, but does my point make any sense?

quote:

---

• link Blah.com members to each other, connecting home buyers to modernist architects, modernist prefab manufacturers to building contractors, modernist home developers to realtors, etc., all in geographically-defined markets.

---

The pairwise comparisons sound a little limiting. What about home buyers to developer and developers to architects?

How about:

"Facilitate the interaction between home buyers and producers, including developers, architects, developers and realtors, within geographically defined markets."

quote:

---

All of these strategies will reinforce each other, thus continually expanding the market for both consumers and producers. In the implementation of each of these strategies, Blah.com will embody the values that distinguish successful communities of interest in emerging markets: transparency, openness, fairness, cooperation and civility.

---

I prefer “maintain” to “embody.”

Also, are these 5 values part of common knowledge? Even after reading the previous draft, I couldn’t really figure out what they meant. This may be a case where those that use these terms a lot develop an understanding of the terms that is not easy for newcomers to pick up. Could we have a paragraph that discusses these values without using any of those terms?

quote:

---

The principle benefit for both consumers and producers alike is that they will be able to find each other through Blah.com. Initially, a couple interested in building a modernist house will be able to more easily find an architect or stock plan to suit their needs. As the Blah.com community grows and becomes more diverse, consumers will similar interests in a geographic market will be able to coalesce demand for a modernist housing development, while architects or manufacturers will be able to work with local developers to meet localized demand…

---

I am not sure you are using coalesce correctly (it means to grow together, right?). But I am not sure what works better.

I agree with Greg on the “affordability” issue. If we use it, we need to define it. To most people, “affordable” housing means Habitat for Humanity. I think Greg's discussion of how much the word is used was right on target.

posted 07-17-2003 01:00 PM               

I realize you weren't taking the affordability concept out. I guess I just don't think it needs de-emphasizing, but that is just me. I think things will, epecially when money is to be made, tend to de-emphasize themselves. It is easier to abandon a goal when not enough emphasis is applied. I guess I am worried that the ideal of affordable modern architecture will be abandoned.

posted 07-17-2003 02:42 PM               

I like Rous's edits - in most cases I think he has moved the text towards a conversational voice that is easy to understand without losing meaning.

posted 07-17-2003 02:56 PM               

I can't write more now or tonite, but will in the am. I think we should continue discussing the topic through the weekend, in the interest of inclusivity.

posted 07-17-2003 06:35 PM               

Like Greg and I have said here before, "affordability" is a very subjective and relative thing, as what one considers "affordable," someone else considers "expensive." Rather than emphasize making modernist houses as cheap as mobile homes (not very likely, unless they ARE mobile homes), we should stress that what we're really talking about is making modernist houses as affordable as the average house, regardless of style. Most everyone who can afford to build or buy a home can afford some level of traditional house, and what I want to see is a market for modernist homes that are priced the same as these houses, so that people who can afford to build can also afford a modernist house, if that's what they choose. We're not talking about the Houses at Sagaponac, here.

posted 07-18-2003 05:19 AM               

So, Marshall, where are we on our project, now? Are we ready to invite our constituent groups over to the Dwell boards, yet? Also, do you think we need to start a new, separate thread in which to have that discussion with all of the people involved, or should we keep it right here, where they can all read what has already been said without having to jump back and forth between threads? I think now is as good as anytime to start promoting this discussion thread to others. We don't need to arrive at all the answers first, and, in fact, having everyone involved on board to discuss these matters will be the best way to arrive at answers and solutions.

posted 07-18-2003 08:11 AM               

1. I'll do a summary of the issues that may or may not have been resolved yesterday. I think there are two or three. I'll try to get this done this morning, and weigh in on them (taking off my facilitator cap). the issues may not need more discussion, but we'll see.

2. This summary will be distinct from language suggestions that seem noncontroversial, and will be incorporated into a third draft. I'll try to get that done today.

3. I think we should continue to discuss over the weekend, but start a new thread first thing Monday on the statement as it exists then. This statement should be the invitation that gets people to the new thread. Vet the idea for a week, and then proceed.

does that sound like a plan?

posted 07-18-2003 08:23 AM               

quote:

---

does this sound like a plan?

---

It does indeed. Maybe we should wait and see what comes up this weekend before committing to a new thread on _Monday_. But certainly, once the basic document is agreed to, we need to start a new thread and leave this one behind.

And thanks again for all your work on this, Marshall.

posted 07-18-2003 08:48 AM               

1. Affordability. Obviously a trick to define. Greg's interest, it seems, is primarily in avoiding an association with "subsidized housing" which I think there is no controvery over. Otherwise, I think there is concensus on what affordable means, based on Gary's comments. I'll post a separate message on my thoughts about affordability.

2. Use of "prefab" in quote fron Tracy R. I agree, but if we want to use the quote, we have to get permission from Tracy R to see that dropping prefab does not substantially alter her intent. I'll ping her.

3. Dwell in the 1st paragraph. I'm fine with dropping this reference. Was hoping that they would chime in.

4. Modern vs Modernism. Archibell posted earlier today bout this. No discussion so far.

posted 07-18-2003 09:01 AM               

I took the the approach that I did, primarily because that's what the consumer wants. I understand Greg's not wanting what we create to be associated with subsidized housing, but I think that's not really the primary concern here. The concern is that modernist housing has heretofore been unavailable because it has not been affordable.

I'm using Gary's definition of affordable. It's what the market will bear. I included in the vision statement that it would be something that is "affordable to a majority of home buyers." That will mean different things in different locales, but that is the goal.

And I thnk that the chicken and egg question is not really the best one. The problem with modernism is that either way you look at it (chicken or egg), the word "expensive" is associated with it. That is the problem, and the perception has to be changed. That's why I constantly use affordable and modernism together -- it's a mantra -- because only by consiously linking the two words, and repeating it over and over again, is the public ever going to change it's mind about modernism. And that's a necessary precondition for growing the market.

Of course, if modernism cannot be made affordable, then we're all in a heap of trouble. But I think that is what we are all really working toward, making modernism affordable. Why not just say it?

posted 07-18-2003 10:33 AM               

Marshall, that sounds fine. I think we need to decide, Monday, just where we are going to post the message, and what media, other than the internet, we may want to use, as well.

Rous, I'm on the fence, as far as starting a new thread is concerned. On the one hand, it would look better if we had a new thread, with the invitational message as the first post. On the other hand, I am concerned that people aren't going to know or fully comprehend just what it's all about unless they have first read the thread we have here. So, I think a compromise measure is in order, i.e., why don't we take excerpts of the salient points raised in this thread and include them in the promotional message at the beginning of the new thread? This would necessitate a rewrite of the message, perhaps, but it would also serve to quickly bring the uninitiated up to speed with concept.

Marshall, I agree with what you've said on the issue of affordability. I believe there is already a market, however diffusely distributed, for modernism, and I'm not talking about millionaires. There are, perhaps, several hundred thousand (maybe even millions) of people out there who would choose modernism if they thought it was affordable. These people only need to be reached and made aware of the fact that modernist houses are available. As for other people, who may or may not care about modernism, I don't see them as the people we are addressing. They are simply not in our market, and, for most of them, any attempts to persuade them are a wasted effort. I think these folks will be persuaded, not by our message, but by a growing market for modernist houses. When they see, with their own eyes, what is happening, those who can be persuaded will be. Those who cannot, on the other hand, will never be.

Gary

posted 07-18-2003 10:57 AM               

In the oxymoron section saying something like:

Modern housing has generally been available to the wealthy. We believe that it can and should be available to the average homebuyer.

posted 07-18-2003 11:10 AM               

Marshall, I agree with your point about affordability, but I disagree that it justifies the modification of "modern" with "affordable" at every instance. I think the point needs to be made, made clearly, and repeatedly, but not synonomous with the identity.

I thought a new thread would be a good idea -you can always refer people back to hear without forcing them to read the development of the idea - at least they will begin with a clear draft of the idea. Some may be more curious than others about the background - the idea was to make a clear statement of the thoughts here after all.

Who should start this new thread? - I think Gary should since he did so here.

Do we want to start throwing out ideas for messagebaords where we should post annoucements/links.

posted 07-19-2003 01:12 AM               

Greg, we see the term "modernist" in use frequently, these days. Dwell uses it, also. I prefer the term because it suggests a connection to modernism, which is what we're talking about. When the average person uses the term "modern," it can mean anything from "contemporary" to a McMansion with a "modern" HVAC system. Some architects who design McMansions refer to their work as "modern." The problem with the term "modern" is that we'll always be having to explain what we mean by it. Go back and read some of the threads on these boards. I got so tired of explaining to people what we mean by "modern," that's why I started using "modernist," instead.

I agree that "modernism" and "afforable" don't have to be mentioned in conjunction with each other. They are not necessarily linked to each other, and, if we place too much emphasis upon affordability, we will ultimately encounter disappointment when not every house we design turns out to be affordable. I just completed a design that is 2,559 square feet. Even if built for $100 per square foot, it's stiil "afforadable," at $255,900, because that is about the average price of a new home, these days. I'm not going to start promising that everyone can afford a modern house, or that they can be built any cheaper than McMansions. It is a significant improvement in the market for modernism if these houses can be built for the same price as any other housing. At that rate, they become affordable to most homebuyers. Those who can't afford the cost of building a home aren't going to benefit.

As soon as we have reached some consensus on our message, I'll be glad to start the new thread. I just need to know what to include.

Yes, let's start thinking of places to promote the thread. I think a couple we should use are Modernism Magazine and Metropolitan. Maybe Archinect, too, though it seems like a hostile environment. Any others?

Gary